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daliacpa
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Posted: 29 Sep 2009 at 17:30 | IP Logged  

dlwtistyle wrote:

It looks like if you don’t work in a public accounting firm right out of college, you will never get the chance to, especially with the Big 4.  I graduated in the fall of 2008 and  recently applied to one of them through campus recruting, and they responded with a big f*ck you. Go figure. 



Agreed. It's not fair. I understand why they do it. They hire entry level students, work them to death for two years, and if they "prove" themselves, they can go on, if not, they're given a kick in a butt. And how convenient it is to have a chance to "trim" their staff after two years! I get it. But it's still not fair because deserving recent graduates who have some quite substantial, even if small, corporate experience (in addition to CPA) are WILLING to work those hours and prove themselves. Why Big 4 don't target these people? Their experienced section on the website is a royal joke; wanted directors and managers...Where in the world you get directors and managers and seniors except from OTHER Big 4? Don't they need to cultivate the talent continuously from within? Why don't they have a faster track for people with non-public-accounting experience who want to get in and continue working toward these positions?
If anyone can answer me these questions sensibly, I'll kiss you! Because at the moment it completely baffles me!


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onlyregleft
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Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 04:15 | IP Logged  

daliacpa wrote:
dlwtistyle wrote:

It looks like if you don’t work in a public accounting firm right out of college, you will never get the chance to, especially with the Big 4.  I graduated in the fall of 2008 and  recently applied to one of them through campus recruting, and they responded with a big f*ck you. Go figure. 



Agreed. It's not fair. I understand why they do it. They hire entry level students, work them to death for two years, and if they "prove" themselves, they can go on, if not, they're given a kick in a butt. And how convenient it is to have a chance to "trim" their staff after two years! I get it. But it's still not fair because deserving recent graduates who have some quite substantial, even if small, corporate experience (in addition to CPA) are WILLING to work those hours and prove themselves. Why Big 4 don't target these people? Their experienced section on the website is a royal joke; wanted directors and managers...Where in the world you get directors and managers and seniors except from OTHER Big 4? Don't they need to cultivate the talent continuously from within? Why don't they have a faster track for people with non-public-accounting experience who want to get in and continue working toward these positions?
If anyone can answer me these questions sensibly, I'll kiss you! Because at the moment it completely baffles me!

They don't have a faster track for people with non-public accounting experience because they are looking for people who have been through audit training programs and have learned the audit methodologies. It is a steep learning curve and it is more practical to hire someone with public accounting experience. If you are in industry and your goal is to work for a Big4, then the best way is to work for a small to mid size CPA firm where you can get a lot of exposure quickly. Usually those firms don't have set policies on when you are promoted so you have a lot more control over how quickly you can grow. After gaining some experience, you will be in a better position to apply to the Big4.



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dlwtistyle
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Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 14:04 | IP Logged  

onlyregleft wrote:
daliacpa wrote:
dlwtistyle wrote:

It looks like if you don’t work in a public accounting firm right out of college, you will never get the chance to, especially with the Big 4.  I graduated in the fall of 2008 and  recently applied to one of them through campus recruting, and they responded with a big f*ck you. Go figure. 



Agreed. It's not fair. I understand why they do it. They hire entry level students, work them to death for two years, and if they "prove" themselves, they can go on, if not, they're given a kick in a butt. And how convenient it is to have a chance to "trim" their staff after two years! I get it. But it's still not fair because deserving recent graduates who have some quite substantial, even if small, corporate experience (in addition to CPA) are WILLING to work those hours and prove themselves. Why Big 4 don't target these people? Their experienced section on the website is a royal joke; wanted directors and managers...Where in the world you get directors and managers and seniors except from OTHER Big 4? Don't they need to cultivate the talent continuously from within? Why don't they have a faster track for people with non-public-accounting experience who want to get in and continue working toward these positions?
If anyone can answer me these questions sensibly, I'll kiss you! Because at the moment it completely baffles me!

They don't have a faster track for people with non-public accounting experience because they are looking for people who have been through audit training programs and have learned the audit methodologies. It is a steep learning curve and it is more practical to hire someone with public accounting experience. If you are in industry and your goal is to work for a Big4, then the best way is to work for a small to mid size CPA firm where you can get a lot of exposure quickly. Usually those firms don't have set policies on when you are promoted so you have a lot more control over how quickly you can grow. After gaining some experience, you will be in a better position to apply to the Big4.

 

 

Getting into a small-midsized firm is not any easier than getting into the Big 4. So once again, if you dont' work for a public accounting firm right out of college, it will be very difficult, if not impossible to get into public accounting. 

I graduated last fall, finished the exam and 150 credits and worked as an SOX internal auditor.  It wasn't some bullsh*t job either. It was good experience and I learned quite a bit since I received hands on experience with accounting processes, systems, etc.  But to public accounting firms, this experience seems useless.

I recently talked to a Big 4 recruiter regarding entry level positions.  She basically told me I'm excluded from getting an entry level position because they prefer students who are graduating (with or without experience and haven't even sat for the CPA) over candidates who have already graduated, gained some good experience, and have already completed the CPA and 150 credits, which makes absolutely no sense to me at all.  I really don't see the logic in these firms and their hiring practices.  I personally believe a candidate who has graduated with 150 credits, passed the exam, and gained some type of accounting experience is just as qualified, if not more qualified than some fresh graduate who hasn't proven anything yet.

Since I was barred from getting an entry level position, the recruiter told me that my other option would be to apply for an experienced level postion.  However, as we all know, these positions require experience in public accounting. I'm sure you can see where I'm getting at this....

I asked her a question that she completely stumped on. She didn't have a direct answer and gave me this long beat around the bush answer that made me wanna scream "you are full of sh*t!!" on the phone.

So, here is the million dollar question:

How does one get a position with a public accounting firm as an experienced candidate (that requires public accounting experience) when he doesn't have public accounting experience, and as a result, cannot get that public accounting experience because he barred from applying for an entry level position?

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onlyregleft
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Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 16:59 | IP Logged  

"How does one get a position with a public accounting firm as an experienced candidate (that requires public accounting experience) when he doesn't have public accounting experience, and as a result, cannot get that public accounting experience because he barred from applying for an entry level position?"

It's called Networking. Go to Local AICPA events and meet people who are senior managers and partners. Use your university resources and set up informational interviews with alumni in public accounting. Quit blaming the system. What's so great about the Big4 anyways. I come from one and just about everyone that came in my class have all left to go work in industry.



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dlwtistyle
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Posted: 30 Sep 2009 at 17:10 | IP Logged  

onlyregleft wrote:

"How does one get a position with a public accounting firm as an experienced candidate (that requires public accounting experience) when he doesn't have public accounting experience, and as a result, cannot get that public accounting experience because he barred from applying for an entry level position?"

It's called Networking. Go to Local AICPA events and meet people who are senior managers and partners. Use your university resources and set up informational interviews with alumni in public accounting. Quit blaming the system. What's so great about the Big4 anyways. I come from one and just about everyone that came in my class have all left to go work in industry.

 

Not blaming the system.  I'm just speaking from facts and experiences with large and mid sized firms, not big 4 exclusively.  I'm not one of those people who think "big 4 or bust".  I've been to many networking and alumni events but not much has come out of it. Some of these events were cancelled at the last minute (maybe these firms really are hurting bad, who knows). 

Who cares if people in public accounting are leaving to work in industry?  I'm doing trying to do the opposite, which the recruiter said would be held against me, and it shouldn't.

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