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 Topic: Differences between MST and JD ( Topic Closed)
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FARB-FinAudRegB
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| Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 01:17 | IP Logged
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A contributing factor for me is that I have several cousins and an uncle whom are all business lawyers. They all have their JDs and LLMs. So far, it is looking like I'll be, at the minimum, the CPA in the family.
I've been told from a tax instructor (who has CPA, MST & JD) at my college that if I really want to become a lawyer, I should get my MST then my JD. With the CPA exam passed and an MST, law school on the tax attorney route wouldn't be too difficult since I would know everything.
Also, the lawyer power might not be that useful. First, my tax law case would have to lose, and then I would be able to represent my client for litigation in a lower court. That wouldn't happen often, or so I'm told.
What's could happen would be that I'll be getting my MST done, and then get burnt out and forget the JD. But I'm really hardworking, so I might be still be ambitious after the MST.
__________________
CPA Exam: Won Series 4-1
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kj_nyc
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| Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 15:19 | IP Logged
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Thanks for sharing, Barry223 and Kfan.
FARB-FinAudRegB, if you just want to do tax work, and you want the lawyer power just to be able to represent your clients in court, you can take a Tax Court exam to be admitted to represent taxpayers in tax court, and not have to become a lawyer. The tax court exam is supposed to be really tough, but it's still much cheaper and less time-consuming than going to law school and taking the bar exam.
I had previously wanted to go to law school because I really am interested in law beyond tax, including some of the things that Barry described. But financial mistakes have made it an impossibility for me, so I'm settling for tax, which I also like but just don't quite love as much as law. But I'm thinking eventually of trying for the Tax Court exam, and I think that can satisfy my desire for legal work.
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Barry223
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| Posted: 25 Oct 2009 at 16:42 | IP Logged
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FARB -
What kind of tax work are you interested in specifically? And what kind of
tax work do your cousins and uncle do? (I'm just assuming they work in
tax because you mentioned they have LLMs and that's the only kind worth
even a dime.)
Your background would definitely help if you wanted to work for a
smaller-to-mid-size estate planning firm, but if you want to do the really
big firm work you will have to go to a top school and/or get top grades.
Since you have a lot of lawyers in your family maybe you already know
this but at least for the benefit of other readers I think this bears
repeating. Having a CPA or business/tax background may help you in
being chosen over someone from a similar school with similar grades, but
it will never (and I mean never) trump those two factors.
The big law firm business model is that they can charge such exorbitant
fees to their clients because they only hire the "top" graduates. What this
means in practice is that if a large firm is looking to expand its tax
practice, it will hire an ivy-league graduate with a BA in philosophy over
someone from a less prestigious school who is a CPA/MST every time.
Having something like an NYU LLM will help, but will still be given less
consideration than your JD school and grades. No one ever said that the
BigLaw business model makes any sense, but there you have it.
kj_nyc -
If you really want to be a lawyer, I wouldn't give up just yet. I've seen your
other threads and since you may be in the running for the Elijah Watt
Sells award you clearly have some sort of super-human facility with
standardized tests and could probably get a killer score on the LSAT. If
you really want to, take the test, send out some applications, and see
what kind of offers and scholarships you can get. It can't hurt to at least
dip your toe in the water and you wouldn't be committing yourself to
anything yet at that point.
Since you are in NYC, I would not settle for anything less than Columbia
or NYU. Lawyer forums seem to be disproportionately filled with
disgruntled BLS and Cardozo grads working in terrible insurance defense
firms or document review gulags (if they have jobs at all.) The top grads
from these schools may still be doing okay, but law school grading is so
arbitrary and unpredictable that you can't reliably expect to be in the top
10% of your class no matter how smart or hardworking you are. Everyone
in law school works hard and still only 10% will end up in the top 10%,
logically enough.
As mrkennedy pointed out, the hours at the big law firms are brutal
(worse than Big4), but if you could get in and last a few years these jobs
still have nice exit options to less stressful in-house positions and the
like.
Best of luck to both of you guys regardless of what decision you decide to
take.
__________________
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BEC - Passed
FAR - Passed (2nd attempt)
AUD - Passed
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kj_nyc
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| Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 12:23 | IP Logged
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Barry, thanks for all the info and encouraging words. But how did you finance law school? I thought there are never scholarships at the top professional schools (law & business). Most people I know of who went had to take out massive loans. I cannot afford to take such a gamble, especially in this economic environment. And yes, you are confirming what I have heard others say about the importance of going to a top law school. I would consider law school only if I could get into an ivy league and finance it without big loans.
Did you take the bar exam? How do you think it compares to the CPA exam in difficulty and study time required?
And yes, I've been lucky enough so far on standardized tests. I never scored below 99th percentile on the ones I've taken (the various SATs and GMAT). (I hope I have not cursed my BEC score by saying that). Whether I have a shot at Elijah Watt Sells depends entirely on the BEC score I'm waiting on, as I got perfect scores on the other 3 sections. But I don't know if there would even be any type of monetary award if my BEC score turns out well, since I was not lucky enough to get a Big 4 job (they are the ones that give something like $25k to Elijah Watt Sells winners).
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Barry223
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| Posted: 26 Oct 2009 at 15:19 | IP Logged
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kj_nyc -
No problem at all. I didn't know that about the ivy-league schools not
offering scholarships, though I guess it makes sense considering that
everyone who goes to those schools can get the sort of jobs that can pay
back those loans in a reasonable time (or at least that was the case when
the economy wasn't so bad.)
I went to a state school in the early 2000s when tuition wasn't nearly as
high as it is today (also there was the fact that it was a state school.) I did
have some loans, which I've since paid off, which would have been more
substantial if I hadn't had a good deal of help from my parents as well,
which I know makes me very lucky in that regard.
My school "taught to the bar" as they say, making as many bar courses
required as possible with a more limited number of electives, so that I did
not find the bar exam that difficult though it was still nerve-wracking,
since it's a one shot thing like the CPA used to be. I studied way more for
the CPA exam, and I admit there were many sections on FAR and AUD
that I was learning for the first time in "review" courses.
Anyway, though I think you have a great shot at some really top law
schools, I don't want to encourage or discourage you either way. I look at
blogs like abovethelaw.com sometimes and have noticed that OCI is down
this year at Harvard. Harvard! Also, so many people are getting laid-off
from the big firms before they have enough experience to get the sort of
jobs that have traditionally been open to people who worked in big firms
but never made partner. So basically those people have fallen off the
conveyor belt and are competing for the same jobs with people from
lower-ranked schools.
The hyper-competitive nature of law has really reached surreal heights. I
never thought I would see the day that a JD from Georgetown would be
snickered at in some circles. If law schools disclosed accurate job
placement data, a great number of them would go out of business (and
I'm not just talking about the most notorious diploma mills like Cooley),
and in my opinion, should go out of business.
Anyway, don't want to jinx it for you but I'm also keeping my fingers
crossed for you on BEC. And again, best of luck with whatever you decide
to do.
__________________
REG - Passed
BEC - Passed
FAR - Passed (2nd attempt)
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