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db729
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Joined: 22 Apr 2010
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Posts: 256

Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 13:58 \| IP Logged

formerstarQB16 wrote:

While I agree with this being "their reason", I find it pretty arrogant for someone with no knowledge of mid-size firm accounting to assume that my experience is not as valuable as someone with top 20 or Big 4 credentials.

I'm not working at H&R block here. What small firms lack in complexity, they make up for in broad foundational knowledge. It's the nature of the beast, clients are too complex at the Big 4 level for one person to complete all tasks of an audit. On the other side, I've been an in-charge accountant on Audits, Reviews, and Comps for 2.5+ years, building every part of an engagement binder from start to finish. Am I going to have an extremely in-depth knowledge of specific substantive procedures? No. But I guarantee you that I've obtained a much better understanding of the big picture than those who have only worked at a Big 4 firm for a 3 years. I know this, because I work with several former Big 4 and top 20 employees.

So while you've confirmed what I already suspected regarding perceptions, let's back off the ridiculous falsehood that someone with 2 years of Big 4 experience is more qualified than someone with 4 years of Small firm.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not making the claim that someone with 2 years of Big 4 experience is better than someone with 4 years at a small firm. What I'm saying is that there are expected roles for each level within the firm, and someone with 4 years of experience will perform marginally better someone with 2 years of experience for those specified roles.

For example, first years in Big 4 audit cash all day long. Do you really need someone with 3 years of experience to audit bank recs? Not really....So while the 3rd year will be better than the first year in many other regards, his/her "advantage" over bank recs isn't that big of a deal. Same for your situation. Again I'm not saying someone with 2 years of experience knows more than you overall, but the expected roles for a 2nd year in Big 4 can be fulfilled by someone without those extra years of experience.

By the way, it's ironic that you would call someone from Big 4 arrogant for not understanding mid tier firms, when you really don't know Big 4 firms either. Personally I think the people coming from mid tier firms are great from a technical standpoint. They definitely have "seen" more of the bigger picture, but that alone does not make them a good auditor or successful at the job. Technical knowledge is only part of the job.

Like everyone else has said, learn to network and try to utilize whatever resources you have. If you're not willing to do so, you're probably not going to get a job at the Big 4. Whether or not you feel that's fair, it's irrelevant to you getting the job.

sasa
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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
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Posted: 30 Aug 2011 at 15:47 \| IP Logged

formerstarQB16, I think you need to rethink your
experience and see if you have any specialty in a
particular area. From my experience, the big 4 is looking
for specialties with experienced hire. Broad range
experiences are only good for small and mid-tier firms
because you will be performing a variety of tasks and
pretty much work on a project from start to finish. The
more years of experience you have, the more important that
you need to develop a specialty in a particular area or
industry, i.e. Real Estate/health care/financial services.

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Elchupanebre4
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Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Location: United States
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Posts: 17

Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 18:09 \| IP Logged

Former QB. Shot me an email if you'd like (on my profile). I came from a smaller firm (3 years at a 50 person firm), and got a job through the regular application at KPMG with interviews at two others. Subsequently got an old co-worker an audit senior job as well. The real key is to get a current employee (it doesn't matter if it;s the same office) to submit your resume through the referral system, it at least gets a look. With how understaffed the firms are right now at the senior level if you use the right keywords you should be able to get at least a phone screen. If your interested I'd look over your resume and chat and if it's legit would submit it (as a disclaimer this isn't benevolent, I would get a referral bonus). One big key here for not having a name brand on your resume is having you're CPA, it helps downplay the lack of SOX work and industry specialization off the bat that your larger generalist skillset has as a result of the smaller firm/more diverse experience you have.

waiting40
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Joined: 30 Sep 2011
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Posts: 10

Posted: 12 Oct 2011 at 11:05 \| IP Logged

formerstarQB16 wrote:

db729 wrote:

formerstarQB16 wrote:

Well no, it's not that simple.

I've applied to recently advertised positions in a top 20 Metro area, a top 15 metro area, and a top 5 metro area. My resume is fine, I've had it checked. And my firm is not considered a cancer. Actually, my firm is probably not even known to recruiters.

Which brings me back to my initial question... I think I'm struggling because recruiters don't understand what it is we do at smaller firms. Especially those that have zero clients who are issuers.

I feel like I'm S.O.L.... does anybody have any experience otherwise?

Just applying to the jobs isn't enough, if you don't actively network, you're not going to get the job. You're not the only one applying to those jobs with 4 years of PA experience. If you don't come from a recognizable CPA firm, you're going to get passed over by the BDOs/GTs/etc. Even if you're actually a significantly better candidate, the reality is that your CPA firm's name is holding you back. Not to mention just the sheer number of applicants.

I could be completely ignorant to the plight out there right now, but I would be absolutely shocked if there were many outside of me with 4 years of experience applying for a 2nd year position. That's a pretty substantial backstep for most. I was only applying for it in order to get another phone interview.

You should probably be shocked, i was too when i joined LinkedIn and saw so many people with 10 to 15 years experience applying for entry level internal audit roles. Not to mention they have Masters and stuff.. I gave up applying in to the firms in United States. But then people around me keep telling me there are always openings with external audit.. *Shakes head.. Im now 4 months unemployed! =P I have 3 years experience with the Big4, first class honours accounting degree, completed ACCA when i was 21yo (ok, this is not so relevant) but.. you'd think there should be something.. But there isn't.. Im not complaining, gonna just keep looking.. =)

Cheers! Have a good day fellow readers!

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