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 Topic: Big 4 -> Bulge Bracket Product Control? ( Topic Closed)
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db729
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Joined: 22 Apr 2010
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Posts: 256
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| Posted: 15 Apr 2012 at 15:41 | IP Logged
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ddlszxcv wrote:
Are you serious man? Project the salary out to 10 years? I see how hard
my senior manager worked and I know there's now way she's making
more than 200k at 12 years in. Everyone knows you just keep on working
more and more in public accounting until you get to partner and god
knows how long and how much political bs that takes. There's NO WAY
that a person in the big 4 can make more than a person in fund
accounting after the jump over from the big 4. And if you factor in all the
hours you slave away during busy season and god forbid a 6/31 year end
client, you make way less per hour. I don't know what metro you're in but
in NYC, fund accounting for a fund or bulge bracket is the ideal exit
opportunity because there's so much money because of the bonus
potential.
1. What?? Wtf are you talking about. I'm telling you to project out salary in the two scenarios YOU provided, i.e. Big 4 --> HF Accountant vs BB BO. You're making the argument that you might as well start off in BB BO without having to do Big 4 because you're compensated better, and I'm telling you you're wrong based on the #s and growth rates YOU provided. Take year 5 salary ($150K and $95K), give both the same constant growth rate, and project out salary to year 10. Who ends up getting compensated the most over the 10 year period?
2. Lol whether you're HF Accountant or BB BO, you're still back office. Will you get a decent bonus? Maybe. But it's hardly anything to get brag about. Real bonus potential are for those in front office positions. Let's be real this.
3. Btw before you completely discount Big 4 salary. A partner at Big 4 is making well over $300K, especially in NYC. And they get their last year salary for the rest of their life. They have to put up an up front equity to enter the partnership, but the firm basically gives you the loan to do so with marginal (if not none) interest. You're right, you never know if you'll make partner. But same can be said about a senior level position in BB BO or HF BO side.
And yeah, as an intern I saw a lot of dicking around. Every day during
busy season, I would count at least 4-5 people in JIT's on facebook. The
staff 2 on my team who was closest to me told me straight up that he
stops working after 6:30 every day and just pretends like he's doing work.
There were some days where we were just sitting around and hanging out
until 7:30 because we were just keeping up with the perception that we
were "working hard" but in reality there was one person on my team who
was reading comics, another person planning vacations, and another
person who was on sametime, gchat, and fb chat all at once. Why the
need to charge the code for 2 hours more than necessary just to keep up
the fake appearance? I didn't mind because I was getting paid overtime
but as a staff, I would hate it because it's such a useless waste of time.
You're bitching about leaving at 7:30 during busy season? Dude get the fk out of Big 4 or anything position that requires you to actually work hard. And you should consider yourself lucky for even having your own laptop that you can dick around with. You think working in industry is just 8 hours of intense work? Hell no. People leave Big 4 and then come back because industry is boring as hell. And guess what? You can't go on FB or anything entertaining because everyone can see your monitor. I'm not saying Big 4 isn't inefficient at times, but you're honestly just bitching at things that you'll eventually realize it's a luxury.
And there's that stupid game everyone plays where they don't want to be
the first one to leave but once the first person leaves, everyone is gone
within 15 minutes. It could be my office but there was so much
pretending to be hard working going on and so much throwing people
under the bus instead of fixing the mistake.
Wah wah wah, welcome to corporate America. It's called office politics. Whether it comes in the form of having to do face time back stabbing someone, taking credit for someone elses work. It happens everywhere. At least you're around people similar to your age that understands and can complain with. You're not realizing that having a group of similar aged colleagues is a fking blessing.
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Not to be an ass but if you seriously have that many things to complain about Big 4, don't go back. You won't be happy and there are plenty of other kids that would be more than happy to take your full time offer. Plus you're just going to make your engagement teams that much worse off. Look we all understand that Big 4 is *removed*ty at times, but you CHOSE to be there. Experienced associates and up HATE new associates that complain. We get it, the job can suck. But you honestly haven't done *removed* to deserve to complain.
Btw I don't know if any FO positions in finance is actually in your radar of exit opp, but I hope not. If you can't even take leaving at 730 during busy season. You'll get your ass *removed*ted on at a FO IBD position. Trust me, I've done both.
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ddlszxcv
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Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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Posts: 93
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| Posted: 15 Apr 2012 at 21:10 | IP Logged
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Dude, I'm just providing insight on another career path that will maybe
help people that were unable to get Big 4 jobs or want out. You don't
have to try and prove all my points wrong because I even know that I still
need to do a lot more research on this topic. Don't get mad bro
But since I have time to kill before I get back to CPA studying, I might as
well respond to your "comments" haha
1) Okay I see your point here. I misread the situation. Doing further
research on this...
2) Yeah, I get it. I'm still back office. And let's be real about this. Front
office is an IMPOSSIBLE exit opportunity. It's even IMPOSSIBLE to go from
back office to front office. But I'm not that kind of person that wants to
do FO stuff. I'd rather take home a moderately high salary with a
balanced life in back office if that's the case. I don't want to work 90+
hour weeks....
3) Yeah a partner at a big 4 in NYC in financial services is probably over
500k... but imagine all those years of BS that you have to go through. I'm
going to relate back to my senior manager because she's a 2nd or 3rd
year senior manager and the other day, she was telling us about how she
was going to start her own business. Why? My thought - It's 13 years in
and she doesn't think she'll get invited to the partnership.
4) the 7:30pm leave time is not referring to busy season. I was sitting on
my ass doing work at 8am and leaving at 11pm. As stated in the first
post, I didn't give two *removed*s that I was working so long b/c I was getting
overtime pay but I felt bad for the seniors on my team doing 5x more
work than I was yet getting paid 50% my salary. The 7:30 leave time is
referring to the last 2 weeks of march where everyone was just worn out
from busy season and all of our SEC audits were complete. Yet, even
though people stopped working at 6pm, we were still billing the client 1.5
more hours. I would be ****ing pissed off if I were the client and
witnessed this. Doing this charges the client more and just wastes
everyones time.
Last comment - Yeah, I get that I'm lucky to have a FT offer. You can
refer to post #1 when I mentioned that I would get counter-posts like
yours lol. Again, I'm just trying to foresee the future and get into a decent
exit opp without going the big 4 route to save yourself the misery when
you realize that big 4 is *removed*ty in salary and work life balance.
You've done front office finance? Please do tell how that happened. I'll
say it again - I have no desire to do BB FO and I know it's an impossible
task to go from big 4- front office BB so out of curiosity, it would be nice
if you could spare us some juicy details lol
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db729
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Joined: 22 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 15 Apr 2012 at 22:55 | IP Logged
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I'm not trying to prove your points wrong for the sake of being an ass. I'm just trying to let you know that you're perspective is too short sighted, which seems to be stemmed from just being lazy. I'm not saying Big 4 is the only path or the golden ticket to "success" by any means. But I don't think you realize how fortunate you really are. Yes I read your first post, but it's hard to fully comprehend until you've graduated and your friends are in "dead end" jobs that provide no real learning or exit opportunities. That's when you hopefully realize *removed*ty pay or not, at least Big 4 provides you with something tangible for the future. Your Big 4 experience will be what you make out of it. Some people get the hell out after a year cause all they focus on is the ticking and tying and can't stand the monotony. But some people take the opportunity to learn as much about businesses, how to interact with professionals, build their network, etc. There are a lot of perks that Big 4 offers that other industries don't, assuming you're willing to open your eyes a little and focus less on the negatives.
As far as Big 4 to FO positions, it's not impossible. There's a couple things to consider, at least for investment banking. In investment banking, there are very very respectable banks that provide great exit opportunities and pay that aren't the BBs. It's not like public accounting where it's like Big 4 and everyone else. A lot of people that are looking at investment banking as a career would choose a non-BB over a BB. Second, getting into a BB or investment banking isn't hard because you're coming from Big 4; it's because it's hard to break into the industry in general, especially outside of OCR. If you're trying to break in after you've graduated, Big 4 actually puts you at an advantage to most applicants, unless they have direct IB experience of course. Accounting is still the basis of finance, so having a familiarity with the financial statements and how transactions flow through the 3 financial statements is extremely helpful. Lastly, you don't see Big 4 --> IBD a lot because most auditors don't want to do it. Like you said, hardly anyone wants to stay in PA for 5+ years because of the work life balance. Naturally, even less people are willing to put up with 100+ hour work weeks. I'm not saying it's easy and everyone can do it, but it's definitely not impossible. I'm not the first or the only person to have moved to a FO position. So yeah, I have done both. Or more accurately, I did Big 4 for a little over a year before moving to IBD with a bank you would definitely recognize.
Btw I have no problems with BO work. I get that not everyone wants to spend 90 hours a week in a cubicle looking at excel or powerpoint all day. Frankly, I think if you're trying to do FO work just because of a fatty bonus at the end of the year, you just screwed yourself out of the best years of your life.
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Fuhrman2408
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: United States
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Posts: 165
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| Posted: 16 Apr 2012 at 19:06 | IP Logged
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Dear 22 Year Old Who Doesn't Know What to Do with Your Life,
I get it, we've all been there. Big 4, or public accounting in general, can
really suck. But you get to work with a lot of people your age, build a
strong network and learn a *removed* ton. Let's be real, as stated above, and as
evidenced by your post, you don't know what the F you want to do with
your life. I get it. I've been there. Just put your time in, pass the exam,
and you'll never look back and regret what you've done. Don't base it off
dollars in Year 1, 2, 3, etc. You're going to be working for 40 years.
You're smart enough to know that where you are at age 27 is not an
indicator of where you'll be in the long haul, generally speaking.
Signed,
Other guy who doesn't know wtf he wants to do with his life and has done
2 years in the big 4, 2 in private industry and is now back in the Big 4
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